Curse

Revelations · Sep 27, 2009, 01:55 PM // 13:55

I'm currently playing for a few various bad guilds, trying to help a bunch of newish players learn some ropes. I'm talking players who have only just begun to grasp the concept of kiting and weapon swaps - who have no idea what to do against a split of any kind, and who have generally only played their bar in half a dozen RA matches.

From my experience playing with these people, the single greatest obstacle for players new to the format is attitude. Of the ~25 people in varying guilds that I currently guest for, all of about two guys are happy to accept various facts about their matches. I'm going to throw these out here in an accusatory form, because I think this strongly applies to several posters in this thread.

- If you've never played a GvG before, or had a very small amount of experience, then please don't expect to win every game. I'll say it right now: You're going to lose. A lot. Hell, new players will probably go sub 900 rating before things change, probably less with K value as it is.

- Rating doesn't matter. I honestly have no idea why new guilds don't want to play because it'll drop their rating. So what? Unless you just don't improve you'll earn it back. Or hell, you could even just reform if you really cared about it that much.

- If you aren't prepared to religiously obs yourself and deal with mistakes you obviously made, then you are simply not going to improve. Obs mode (usually) doesn't lie. I've seen players consistently try to deny the same mistakes over and over as I observe them in obs mode each night. Stop shitting yourself - you won't get better until you man up to those mistakes.

- You will only improve as much as you let yourself. As others have said in this thread, people seem to expect wins on a platter. It doesn't happen, get used to it. You're going to have to put in the hard yards.To do that you need to play the fricking game. Practice your bar in RA or AB. Take note of other players playing the same bar - what do they do better? Do some reading. There are plenty of resources out there aimed at helping new players improve.

- Get some friends. GvG can typically be harder to get into because of the lack of an easy title - you need a reputation to land most guilds worth being in. So you need to build that rep. Once you get decent at playing a few bars then make some friends. Friendlist strong players you've played with and guest them, advertise yourself. Pm spam all the LF GvGers threads here and on QQ saying you'll join or guest. If you've put in the effort to learn the bars it'll show, and hell you might even get core/guested again if you do a decent job. Once you've built up a few connections it's easy. This game is so dead that people at your rank should start recognizing your name.

I have seen countless sub ladder players/guilds fail/disband because they are disheartened by the initial rating drop and can't be bothered expending the effort to get better. They simply dip a toe into the water and opt not to take a swim because it's a bit cold. Little do they realize that once they learn to swim that figurative water will be the most fun they can possibly have in this game.

This post turned into something of a behemoth,

but what I'm largely trying to say is that GvG takes effort. By and large, PvErs or other potential new GvGers don't seem to want to expend that effort - they expect it to be handed to them. Whether this is something to do with the fact that PvE become incrementally easier with each update, or if it's just that people are becoming lazy I'm not sure. But what I am sure about is that attitude is a very significant factor in the lack of influx of GvG players.

TL; DR: People can't be screwed getting better at the game.

revelation · Sep 27, 2009, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I tried getting in some GvG guilds before, but it just seems too difficult to make it to one of the good guilds and have a great team to play with. I have a lot experience from before, in all kinds of PvP, but now I can't find a good guild because I don't have GvG rank and ain't involved into GvG over last 2 years.

So, I can't play with skilled players, and I don't want to play with noobs because I have a lot of experience from before and don't wanna go trough learning process again.

GvG takes a lot of dedication and your time. Also, it requires mic and vent, and as I use 5.1 stereo, all my slots are used so there's no room for mic and I don't have headset.

tealspikes · Sep 27, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfernalSuffering

Are there more people who want to play competitively, but lack the tools (knowledge, builds, etc) to do so, or people who want to play casually, but fail at the logistics (enough people, all on at same time, etc.)?

From my experience and the people I know, definitely the latter. Yes there are some people who want to dive straight into higher level teams rather than start from the bottom and blame elitism when they can't. Of course its elitism's fault, it only exists in EVERY competitive sport. If people don't want to play with you then its your problem, not theirs.

Most of the new people trying to get into GvG don't really care about what rank or prior experience, they just want to guild wars. While you can hope a good guild might take you under their wing, its an unrealistic expectation so that leaves many to start from scratch with people near their level.

Enter logistics nightmare. For those of you who don't know, GvG is NOT made to be PUG'able unlike everything else in this game. Firstly, you have to either convince your guild to start GvG or leave your guild and join a GvG guild. That itself is a turnoff for many people as they don't want to leave their friends behind. Assuming you take this step you then have to find 7 other players, get them to log on at the same time regularly, and keep them from leaving after losing your first 10 matches. So many beginner GvG guilds end up inactive or disbanded because of this.

To answer the topic, I don't think there is anything the community can do besides more Kisu-like guilds. Telling people not to be elitists is like telling them not to be competitive. The problem can only be fixed by Anet making the format more accessible to casual players by making it PUG'able. Being able to PUG GvG means more less experienced people will try it, which leads to more people playing at that lower level and fighting each other instead of losing to good teams all the time.

QueenofDeath · Sep 28, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

when shit happens, first look to yourself before looking at your teammates. often, you'll find the problem right there.

Here we go again typical of your type. It's a team effort and a team loss there is no I in team.

DarkNecrid · Sep 28, 2009, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

Here we go again typical of your type. It's a team effort and a team loss there is no I in team.

What? Everyone on the team should look at what they individually could have done better, saying "oh well, it's a team effort and a team loss" is just avoiding the issue. Stuff the whole team could have done better is honestly rare in comparison...once you work past communication and such, it comes down to following your strategy and calls and people on your team making proper choices. That's stuff those individuals have to look at and see if & how they can improve - which in turn affects the whole team.

You do have to look at yourself...everyone on the team (including you) can always improve, no exceptions, even the best players can and will get better, learn from mistakes, and so on. No one is perfect.

A team is only as good as the people on it, and if those individuals never make attempts to make THEMSELVES better, then the team itself will never be better.

Arkantos · Sep 28, 2009, 11:00 AM // 11:00

At this point in the game, the thing holding me back is finding a guild with dedicated, decent players who aren't morons. That and the fact that I've been quite busy, and I'm going to be more busy when I get a job (and when MW2 comes out <3).

Space · Sep 28, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Personally, I don't share OP's enthusiasm for GvG anymore. AT's are difficult to plan your life around, builds are boring to play and play against and finding the right aptitude and attitude level of guests / guild mates in an ever diminishing pool of players has put me right off. Ladder match wait times are also ridiculous.

I find BYOB is the only fun thing about GvG these days.

Inde · Sep 28, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

Here we go again typical of your type. It's a team effort and a team loss there is no I in team.

There is a "me" though.

moriz · Sep 28, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

inde delivers the ZIINNNGGG!!!

rohara · Sep 28, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

after 3 years of gvg, i'm just tired of it. its too hard to find a guild that functions properly, ie. enjoys playing together, plays well, thrives on improvement, has a decent play schedule, and most importantly...sticks with it. the wait times for gvg suck even at peak hours, and getting a match after 10pm is difficult. the monthly has become a joke, seeing as guilds can go 3-3 or worse and get a poop trim. anet doesn't help either sometimes, what with the vod changes and meta shift after meta shift. the gvg community just isn't what it used to be, and the decline of GW itself isn't helping. giving your all to something that few people seem to care about is rather unrewarding.

BYOB is still a lot of fun though, and i'm looking forward to sealed deck.

QueenofDeath · Sep 28, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

MW2 comes out <3).

What's MW2???

Eragon Zarroc · Sep 28, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

shouldnt this go in the pvp section? O_o

Still Number One · Sep 28, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

shouldnt this go in the pvp section? O_o

It really wouldn't make much sense asking GvGers what there reasons are behind not getting into GvG. The question of the thread is asking people who don't GvG (mainly PvErs) why they don't. What are their reasons for not wanting to, or what is preventing them from doing so.

So no, it doesn't belong there, that is the last place it belongs.

madriel222 · Sep 28, 2009, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Would it be too hard to imagine a group of people who just aren't interested at all in the PvP side of Guild Wars? I hate how PvE'ers are getting attacked in this thread for a "lack of effort" and "wanting everything handed to them," it's completely unfair to a large chunk of the PvE community.

Arkantos · Sep 28, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

What's MW2???

Modern Warfare 2.

Quote:

shouldnt this go in the pvp section? O_o

The OP is asking the general GW community what's stopping them from GvGing. As Still Number One said, asking strictly PvP players is pretty pointless.

Still Number One · Sep 28, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by madriel222

Would it be too hard to imagine a group of people who just aren't interested at all in the PvP side of Guild Wars? I hate how PvE'ers are getting attacked in this thread for a "lack of effort" and "wanting everything handed to them," it's completely unfair to a large chunk of the PvE community.

I think the only one lumping the entire PvE community together here is you. Myself and everyone else (at least all to my knowledge) who has stated that "people want everything handed to them" are specifically talking about the people who try to get into PvP, but fail and decide to come onto the forums and complain about "elitism".

No one is naive enough to think that everyone wants to PvP and those who don't are lazy or spoiled. Of course there are people who don't want to PvP. There are also players who don't want to PvE. This thread is about and for those players who do want to get into GvG, and it is asking what is preventing you from making the jump.

Amadei · Oct 21, 2009, 09:57 AM // 09:57

*resses thread from page 5*

I'm one of those players that's been playing GW for four years, pretty much PvE exclusively (aside from a minor HA stint and a ton of Aspenwood, Alliance Battles and Jade Quarry). I'm not bored per se with GW, but my time logged in is mostly spent watching observer mode and playing JQ. I've always wanted to do some semi-serious GvG and I'm happy to report my guild is finally doing so

I'm in the same guild as Pansy Malfoy upthread ([BPA]) and we've actually been playing as much as all our conflicting schedules allow (we're a mixed Euro/American guild on a number of different timezones. Some of us even have lives outside GW, if you can believe it). And yeah, we've been losing a LOT of our matches, but honestly it's been some of the most fun I've had in the game in months. I don't even care about the losses, just having a challenge and doing something new is enough for me.

We had our best evening so far last night, when we won two out of the three matches we played (it really is a shame obs doesn't save more of your own guild's matches--the only one still up is our last one, which we lost). We're still pretty terrible, but at least I can tell we're improving. There's a lot more talking on vent now, a lot more communication about what's going on where and there's just more of a click, I guess.

It was so much fun, I can't wait til our next GvG.

Yeah, I guess I just wanted to talk about it a little bit. We won despite having to run with a Vekk and one of our warriors having vent problems and being unable to hear us. One of our won matches should've ended way before it actually did (we won on Lord damage) and had a bit of an "oh shit" moment right in the middle, and the other one started out so bad some of us wanted to resign straight away. Good thing we stuck with it (they were running Life Siphon necros and dagger dervishes, so yeah) because it ended up so good.

Okay, done babbling. Have a brownie if you made it this far. My treat

refer · Oct 21, 2009, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Lets see
- Fact that you must be in a guild for more than 2 weeks to do it
- If you are going for ranked people are going to watch you
- I think I would come off as not myself on vent
- People always wanting the meta and nothing else

Aera · Oct 21, 2009, 11:08 AM // 11:08

What most people overlook is the Guild Leader.

The guild leader is frequently considered to be just the one who created the guild and is able to kick people if they're being a dickhead. But, a real guild leader also organizes everything. The guild leader is different from the Guild Leader ( notice the difference in capital letters ).

The guild leader, is the the one who leads the guild, get everybody to come on, looks for guests when needed, will shout at you if you decide to leave randomly when setting up for GvG, etc. The Guild Leader is just a title, those 2 guild leaders don't have to be the same person.

This is something that the low-ranked beginning GvGers lack. In high-end GvG it doesn't play a role as much anymore, people know when ATs are, have a certain time for GvG and generally are online a lot. The beginning GvGers just need someone to actually take lead and not think someone else will do it.

Also, like Billiard said: you really have to make an effort. Don't think everything will go by itself. It takes hours of frustration to get to a level you're content with. If you feel like your teammates aren't progressing, it's time to leave your guild and look for a better one.

The getting 8 people thing can be very hard for beginning GvGers indeed; most of the times you'll be unable to get guests because you don't know anyone else who GvGs yet! I don't know any way around this either. At some point you make a name for yourself and people start asking you and then you can ask them back again as well.

So yes, you need to be as determined as... ...something that's really really determined! In the end all the hours of frustration will pay off, because GvG really is the most fun gametype.

Windf0rce · Oct 21, 2009, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canon

Are people really interested in GvGing but just don't have the resources or know any other players with a shared interest?

This is it for me. Not enough friends who speak same language and have same interests.

That's the problem with organized PvP, you either organize or don't do it at all. Difficult to be casual...

Edit: sorry I didn't notice this thread had been ressed/necro'd.